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failure of learning and teaching English

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failure of learning and teaching English

Post by burself on Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:21 pm

Hi mates. The majority of the students of English in Algeria fail to learn English. So where is the problem? is it in the system, lasiness of students, politically, socially? ....
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Londonhbb on Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:51 pm

but I don't share the same idea with u burself so I can't answer ur quetionnaires
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Thewolf on Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:07 pm

Hello, first of all i want thank you for the important question.
I think the problem is the aim of choosing studying English, i found that there are many people chose study English just as SHOW.I don't think lasiness is a problem, because lasy person can't even eat . Political problems lead to social problems, so they are big reasons to make students fails in everything.
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by bryne_kh2000 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:58 am

Burself !!  such an interesting topic . There are many conditions contribute in the failure of  English learning .First of all , it is the desire to study english. Many people does not have the will to study english , just because it is the computer which choose them to do so. Second of all, it is the problem of administration that always fail in bringing competent teachers, but they (administration) are doing great job still. Finally, it is the bad conditions far students face in the campus; bad taste and  cold meals,rusted plates, the continuous of the electricity cut, and the absence of heat system in the chambers , which made  students not only loose hope of studying  english, but leaving the country as well.Just a point of view 
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by chinda on Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:27 pm

I do agree with you Bryne in some points ; bad conditions of campus, some students were obliged to study English, and bad conditions in classes. But I think that there is a aproblem in us as students,too. We are supposed to do all our best to succeed but we don't, and all of us know this truth. All what we do sometimes is throwing the reasons of our failure on others and give execuses to ourselves.Someone said:"You wiill never succeed if you make any problem an execuse to escape doing things."
It is just my point of view, I hope success for all of us.
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Thewolf on Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm

Campus is not reason, i live in campus and i don't think it make me fails if you choose with who you live, you will enjoy studying in campus more than at home...cold meals...electricity cut!!! in 70s, 80s 90s students were eat from garbage and they are in top now, i don't think it's a reason...
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by bryne_kh2000 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Yes The wolf , campus is not a reason .Loud music at 02.00 am. you get up at 07.00 pm you go out to bring water with your face upside down . Electricity cuts start just one week before the exams , and come back one day after the end of exams. In cold and rainy days ,heat systems are broken . In sunny and hot days , heat systems are fixed and are on .They give you dinner at 18.00 pm in order to stay starving at night , and not  live the other day .Nice the wolf .Enjoy your life in the campus . If these conditions are known  by the Human rights Watch , they will execute them all .
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Thewolf on Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:21 pm

We can't change life, we must deal with different situations of life. I didn't mean that life in campus is good, i just think that it is not reason for fails...millions graduated from campuses.
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by burself on Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:47 pm

These problems are shared by all the students of university I meant precisely English (branch)...
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Ezinma on Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:33 pm

Thank you very much for this thought-provoking question. A great topic posted on a great
forum!

I strongly agree with all what you’re saying mates,and I don’t deny that miserable conditions in campuses play a pivotal role in deterring students’ progress. Yet and as you’ve said our main topic is EFL learning and teaching in the context of universities.

The field of foreign language teaching and learning (FLT, FLL respectively) has a long
history. It’s a wide field of inquiry that involves many subfields, and was and still remains the preoccupation of many researchers and educators. For this reason, it’s very important to note that one post cannot cover all the factors that contribute in the failure or semi-success (M. Miliani 1999) of learning English as a foreign language at our universities. However, I will attempt to give my view point on this crucial topic as a student researcher.
Four years of university studies; learning a foreign language, are memorable as well as a
long period to prove that language learning is not a set of easy steps that can be programmed in a quick do-it yourself kit (D. Brown 2000). Learning a second/foreign (though a foreign and a second language are distinct) has been defined by Brown H.D (2000) as “a long and complex undertaking. Your whole person is affected as you struggle to reach beyond the confines of your first language and into a new language,a new culture, a new way of thinking, feeling, and acting”1. Acquiring a new language requires a great strength from the part of the learner not only inside the classroom but also outside its confines. It’s a path full of obstacles that involve failure as well as success. This complex process of learning an additional language (L2) makes us look more thoughtfully at the teaching process that facilitates learning. If that process of teaching a language
contains undesirable problems and deficiencies, then certainly the learning process will be an unenjoyable experience for language learners.This, however, does not put the blame solely on bad instruction (if we may say bad/good language instruction) as the only
possible reason for students’ failure. As a matter of fact, it is just one among the several intertwined factors that contribute in the failure of learning English. Yet it’s very important to point at the process of teaching that is based exclusively on transmitting knowledge or “spoon-feeding” learners to prepare them for their exams. This “spoon-feeding” process is common at our universities, unfortunately, and it deteriorates students’ self-reflection,
thinking and even motivation (Miliani 1999). That is, it contributes in their failure of learning English and makes them more reliant instead of independent learners. What about teaching learners how to learn, i.e learning to learn?
On the other hand, the process of teaching/learning English does not involve one participant, i.e. the teacher and the way he transmits knowledge (teacher-centred). Emphasis should be put too on the learner taking into consideration who is he (background, personality traits…), his needs, age, how he does the learning (learner strategies) and how he prefers to learn (learners’ styles which vary within and among individuals and account for their success) Brown (1973). Subsequently, learners are not homogeneous and many variables have detrimental effects on their acquisition of English (success or failure). Affective variables are one of the various variables in learning a language such as:self-esteem, self-confidence, motivation, anxiety, inhibition…etc. Students with lower self-esteem for instance, or that feel anxious, less motivated in learning English may fail and the four- years-journey may become a nightmare instead of a sweet remembrance to carry in one’s memory. In addition and more importantly if teachers do not take into consideration these variables and the heterogeneity of their learners (their styles and rhythms too), they would considerablely fail. Consequently, it is of an overriding importance to look at students as total persons and whole subjects. Gradgrind’s classroom in Dickens’ novel Hard Times is a good reminder of students counted as objects and treated as such.
Are these all the factors that lead to the failure of teaching/learning EFL? What is
remaining? What about the approaches, the methods, and the techniques used by language teachers at our universities? This requires an analysis of what the CBA is, as one example. The Competency-Based Approach is a recently imported approach to Algeria. How can we apply an approach designed for another foreign context completely different from our own, for other different peoples with different mentalities? Can teachers aged 50 and more get used to this new trend of teaching? Or do we need to import teachers well acquainted with the features of the CBA to teach? Different questions, but I’d like to start a new thread to tackle the topic on teaching/learning through the CBA.

________________________________________
1 Brown, H.D, Principles of Language Learning and Teaching, NY: Pearson Education Company, 2000, p 01
References:

Brown, H.D, Principles of Language Learning and Teaching, NY: Pearson Education, 2000
Brown, H.D.“Affective Variables in Second Language Acquisition”, Language Learning, vol. 23, No. 2. (1973). P 231-244.
Miliani, Mohamed, “De la Nécessité D’enseigner les Stratégies d’Apprentissage”, Didacstyle No. 2 Juin 1999 : p 3-7
Miliani, Mohamed, “L’Innovation en Didactique des Langues : Une Illusion ?”, Didacstyle No. 1 Juin 1998 : p 11-15.


Last edited by Ezinma on Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by burself on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:05 pm

thanks alot for your good ideas. I meant this side....
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by sayyadmahir on Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:26 am

Very important question. The answer certainly consists of many factors. But to put simply, a basic requirement for success in anything is EVERYONE MUST DO THEIR JOB. Students, teachers and administrators must do their respective jobs well and fully.

At a later stage, we can speak about improving how each is doing their job. It does not take expertise to check if a student, a teacher or an admin is really doing their job or just fooling people by words and sweets...[b]

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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by bryne_kh2000 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:25 pm

There are no bad students , there are just bad teachers.
Teachers take the whole responsibility in most (if not all) students' failure . Teachers must know many things before start giving any course. at least, they must know the modeling system, which is the key to get any student's attention.
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by cici on Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:50 pm

Hi dear friends. i like this question so my view here is that due to th social background specially th accent( The Algerian dialect) it's somewot complicated and mixed so much with french and when u come to see th english of french peopl is not good at all cos they use stress so much as here in Algeria so they cant learn it easily( english sounds hard on th Algerians' ear).....cultural aspects We're so far frm english culture and peopl's interests ( life; job; future) it's not by english u build ur future in Algeria.that's why peopl dont try to open their minds 4 it.
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Blidi on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:36 pm

burself wrote:Hi mates. The majority of the students of English in Algeria fail to learn English. So where is the problem? is it in the system, lasiness of students, politically, socially? ....


Well...I think that it's the educational system that lies behind the failure of many of our sons and daughters. Who cares of this? The newly implemented educational system proved its ineffective target yet it is going on and the Algerian people is still trusting it in making their children real citizens. The proof is that most school children (see UNESCO report on Algeria) are faced with the fact of studying sequences in their books and disordered points that follow no logic...with all due respect to Dr. Si Abderrahemen and Bensemmane (from Bouzareah University). I , once , was speaking to a friend of mine (ESL specialist, called Fiona) about our syllabus design. She asked me to send her a copy of a unit from the official book. She was astonished of the unit gradation and the points to discuss ! In a word, the learners' failure was planned. What shall we do? Nothing, just waiting for change. That's my opinion and I urge none to accept or reject it. Thank you
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by Ismailos2 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:05 pm

Well, here is a quick thought: Why people don't make an effort to correct their mistakes while writing in English ??!! But instead, they blame everyone around them and not themselves!
Well, personally, I think that the problem lies in each of us! We need to make ourselves competent. We need to/ must correct ourselves, and check our spelling !!
There are 2 types of mistakes:
1- Typing mistakes: Instead of writing "I'm going to be there", I write "I'm going be there"! That kind of mistake we all do, carelessly !
2- Horrible mistakes: Instead of writing "I'm bored", I write "I'm boring" !! That, dear friends, is absolutely horrible, and the ones who make those kind of mistakes shouldn't even call themselves English students, let alone if they were 3rd and 4th year students! And here is the kicker, some teachers make unforgettable mistakes !! That is shameful, that's what that is !!!

Wolf, in what world or universe "lazy, laziness" is spelled with an "S" !!? For heaven's sake !! Because you're hanouni, I chose you, to berate and humiliate you lol !! You have made 3 mistakes in 2 lines! I honestly hope for others, too, to make an effort and correct themselves and each others' mistakes, misspellings, and the grammatical structure of sentences!!!

That's all ! I've been wanting to say that for a long time, and now I finally got the determination to do so !
No disrespect to anyone !! Cheers xxxxx
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Re: failure of learning and teaching English

Post by NORINET on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:22 pm

Hello dear all,
Practice makes practice!
English language is not spoken in Algeria .There is no context where learners can use this language.
Many of students are good at grammar for it needs a good explanation and hard concentration.However, when it comes to listening or speaking , they show a great failure in those two crucial skills ( I said crucial because we spend 45% of our communicating life listening and 30% speaking.)
Many Algerians , who have never studied English at schools and who are now living in an English -speaking country , speak and understand English better than those who graduated from Algerian universities.The point is that the context has the a great impact on language learning.
Another issue is the teachers' training.Are teachers well-qualified to teach English? Are they good speakers, good listeners, good grammarians, good readers and good writers!?
Let us move on to learners themselves, do they do enough effort to learn English?Teachers cannot provide them with everything about that language due time restriction and syllabus condensation and many other problems.Do learners try to practice their listening through movies and songs or other materials? Do they practice their speaking skill outside the class ,e.g: in messengers with native and non-native speakers?Do they read , read and read to acquire new vocabulary?....etc.
Speaking about learner's failure will never end up for it is a multifaceted matter.
Thank you Burself for raising this important point and giving us this opportunity to tackle the topic.
Regards, NOR

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